 A Review for those of you who obsessivly research |
| Review Date: December 24, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Portland Biker, Portland, Oregon |
So, if you're like me you research and research, obsess a bit, and then research some more before making a television purchase. So, I thought I would offer a few simple thoughts that might help. First this is an amazing television. The picture is simply amazing, the slim design is wonderful, and the remotes and features are very fun if not all that necessary. Here are some goodies to think about.
As you read on, you'll see that Amazon has pulled the various prices out of my review. Sorry about that, but I'm guessing this review will last a while and that prices always change. Anyway, the general gist is still there.
1. 120 LCD televisions (especially Samsung) are designed to give a 3D-ish effect. They do this through inserting extra film clips between the regular clips. This means that sports look AMAZING, but that movies look like you're watching stage theater. Truly, like it's live video. For some people this is amazing, for others it's completely horrible. I personally hate it. But don't worry. Simply turn the 120 htz off or switch the TV to "Game" setting and you'll have a traditional wonderful movie picture.
2. Is there a difference between the 650, 750, and 850? YES!! Your decision should really come between the 650 or the 850 if your focus is on the picture. If you feel that you want to consider sound as a big part of the package then the 750 should come into the mix too. The 650 and 750 have the same picture and the 750 has a bit more bass. However, the 850 has a higher grade of pixel and produces much deeper blacks and richer whites. You won't find this on the basic specs, but trust me...it's true. There is also some thoughts that the thinner design contributes to the higher black levels. However, looking at a 650 and 850 side by side is enough to easily see the difference. The 850 adds greater depth and detail to your picture. I think it's fully worth the difference in price.
3. The sound question: Consumer reports says that the 650 has "Very Good" sound and the 850 has "Good" sound. I think this hits it just right. The 650 has nice rich tones and you could easily get away with not having a big stereo system. THe 850 is nice too. Just lacking those rich tones. It sounds more like a regular television. Just fine, but you're not getting a "wowswer" effect. However, the 650 is not going to replace a nice surround sound system by any means. The 750 does have a nice bass speaker thrown in which surpasses both. However, my view is that you should focus on your picture when it comes to the television and then look at a surround system for sound. The 850 is just fine for regular TV and the 750 would be nice for a movie, but nothing compared to a good surround system. My advice, by the 850 and save up for a nice mid-range three to five hundred dollar surround sound system from Costco. You'll be blown away.
4. Ohhhh, but maybe a plasma. Yep, plasmas are nice. They glare a bit, but so does the 650-850 series. Plasmas are not as sharp and crisp, but have higher contrast. They won't give you that "stage" look though. I looked at a lot of plasmas and went with the 850. I thought it had wonderful contrast and still maintained those crisp features that are all part of the LCD experience. You'll pay more, so if you want to save 600 or so I might jump down to a Plasma. Fully reasonable choice. Not as good a picture in my mind, but very rich (too rich for me) colors.
5. Ok...maybe a Plasma then: Sure, if you do you might consider panasonic. I haven't researched them as much, but they process at a higher level 480 hrtz vs. the 180 hrtz that a Samsung processes at. Doesn't make a big difference, but Panasonic has been making plasmas a long time and brags about how strong the glass panal is on the front. Supposedly more "wii" safe. Granted no one is playing wii next to the 850. ;) Also important to know that burn in is never covered by a warranty. You should also know that the repair costs for a plasma tend to be twice that of an LCD. The average repair cost for a Samsung LCD is about [...] Plasma average 400-900. If you go plasma, you might want to consider that [...] extended warranty.
6. Be ready to tweak: All high level televisions, including Samsung are built to really dial in. You're going to love your picture out of the box, but if you are bothered by something mess around with all the settings. Kick back and say "I'm going to take an hour to just play with the picture settings." Different combination gets different results. Some increase a "real" look. Others soften. It's going to take some time to dial in. Enjoy it. You can always "reset" the picture if you get too far off.
7. White Glove: Let me save you some time. Amazon has the best deal. Truly. They deliver within a week or two, the guys set up the television wherever you want it, and they are outta there. You sign the papers, and hit power on the remote. They'll even take the box...but you might want to save it. 2% of Samsungs have a problem with clouding (whiteness on the screen in uneven patches) or something else. Watch your tv for a while, if you're in doubt Amazon is awesome about sending a replacement and they will (if asked) take and deliver on the same day. You only have 30 days though so watch that calendar.
7.5: The Jutters: So, you'll see characters jutter across the screen at times. You'll think "I just spent two grand on 120 hrtz to avoid this." Don't stress it. It's not the televisions fault. First, all big screens jutter. Plasmas do it, DLPs do it, and yet, LCDs are famous for it. Flip on a NBC HD game and you'll see nothing but perfection. Here's the deal. Jutters come from a few places. First, it happens on normal televisions too, but often the picture is so small we miss it. Next, the input has everything to do with it. Some DVDs, Blu-Rays, and television stations produce a signal that has a jutter to it. Once you know this little fact you can stop blaming the TV, and realize that on ANY set you'd be seeing that jutter. Funny thing, once you start looking for it you'll see it everywhere. I was jogging and noticed the goal post juttering on my track. Our eyes can only track so fast. ;) The other thing to note is that you're jumping up to a 52 inch television. The people on the screen can be one to two feet high! You're just going to have to process a lot of motion. It takes some time. After a bit, it doesn't even matter. Again, sit back and enjoy.
8. Random things I learned that you might want to know:
1. Go to best buy or someplace and look at the televisions. You need to see your choices. Have them reset the pictures so they are all on the same settings and look. That needs to be your biggest selling point. Then buy from Amazon. They might match, but Amazon has AMAZING customer service.
2. If you register your Samsung within a few weeks of delivery they will give you 3 extra months of warranty for free.
3. Prices jump around all the time. Haggle. Usually a television at this level should come with some sort of promo (150 off a blu-ray) or something of that nature. However, once you purchase from Amazon the largest fluctuation I've seen is 50.00. They are pretty steady. Best Buy and Circuit City will jump [...]
4. HDMI cords. You want a Version 1.3. Those are the highest grade available that what this TV supports. You have four inputs. I find the best configuration is xbox, blu-ray, ROKU (check it out at Netflix), and Cable into the TV, with a digital optical out from the tv to my sound system. VERY simple set up. Of course, choose the four devices that work best for you.
5. Cables: Amazon will offer you some HDMI cables at [...] a pop when you purchase your television. I might consider it. I purchased mine from Costco at 20 dollars a piece because they were gas filled and all super cool...did it make a difference. I don't know. But They were a nice tan color that doesn't stand out too much. I like that. DO NOT BUY ANY 70.00 HDMI cables. That's just a rip off. Save your [...].
6. I'm crazy about reading the manual. The biggest thing that popped out was the fact that the 850 screen must only be cleaned with water or LCD specific cleaners. The cabinet is water clean only. There are all sorts of other products out there that say they are safe...but why risk it right. So, keep that in mind.
7. The sand vs. the wall. Both are equally safe. The stand is very wide and strong on this TV. A wall mount MUST hit both studs. You will then have 4-6 of play to center your TV on sliders that are build into the stand. A plus is that the stand swivels and you don't see cords. A wall mount could get you...3-4 inches closer to the wall. It's a personal call, but make sure you've really found studs when mounting. Many older homes have lath and plaster or 1/4 layer of wood behind the drywall. This can give you a misreading on a stud finder and "could" cause a bad mount. You might be fine, you might not. IF you're worried higher someone that guarantees their work or just use the stand.
8. The FAN question: You'll read some reviews about fan noise and this TV. I haven't heard it yet, I'll keep you posted. It has a lot of venting so I would be surprised. If it does have a cooling fan I would be amazed to have it be louder than the television itself. I'll keep you posted.
9. Remote Control Block: You'll read that this television blocks a cable remote from working. This is no longer the case. New TV's aren't a problem and if it is, there is a firmware update that will fix the problem. Firmware is a file that you download from the Samsung website onto a little thumbdrive. This then pops into the back of your television. You then select "Software Update" in the settings menu on the TV and it updates itself. So no biggie.
The Wonderful World of Clouding: Ok, so you're going to read a lot about clouding and this TV. I have it on mine and here is the general story. When I first got the TV, I had significant clouding...enough that I was ready to return it. However, with use the clouding has been fading away and now it's only visible in a dark room with the backlight cranked up. There is some clouding in all LCD televisions. Again, can't have it all. However, you shouldn't be bothered by it. Upon a ton of obsessive research I came upon three possible things that cloud be the case if you experience this:
1. 1004 firmware. This is the most recent firmware upgrade to the TV. It fixes that remote problem I chatted about, but seems to cause clouding. Samsung knows and will eventually publish new firmware to fix the issue. This will be the case in a healthy normal TV, and responds poorly to the firmware upgrade. All new TVs will have it. How to find out? Go to setup, software upgrade, and then push the info button on your remote. A list of data will appear at the bottom of the screen. If 1004 is in the first line...there ya go.
2. Bad panel. It's always possible. It's a warranty issue. Have Samsung send a tech out.
3. You have a rare disease that I often suffer from call "It Must Be Perfect-itis." Some (a little) clouding is normal. Watch the TV for 15-20 hours and see if it's still a big deal. It will give the TV time to be in use for a bit and you can see if things even out.
However, don't settle. I'm concerned that mine might have a problem so a tech is coming out tomorrow. Samsung was very happy and helpful to do it, and it will be nice to have a professional set of eyes check it out.
**Note** Tech came out. Checked out the TV and sent some photos to Samsung. By the time he came out my TV had evened out to clouding that was within the normal range of the TV. I can only see it on a pitch black screen when I bob my head around for a bit. Truly, not a big deal. Took 20 hours to get it there. The TV tech said that LCDs do need some break in time. So if you have bad clouding, watch a lot of TV in those first 30 days and make sure that it evens out. It most likely will. Mine is great now and I'm fully fine with it. If the clouding returns, Samsung will fix.
Bottom Line: For LCD televisions this one is the best. No doubt. You have to pay some bank for it, but it's a great experience. If money is a big issue I would recommend checking out plasmas. You won't get the same level of sharpness or that 3D look in sports, but the contrast at a lower-quality LCD is just not worth it. Most of all when your television arrives, just sit back and enjoy it. Promise yourself you'll stop researching and checking deals. Pop some popcorn, grab a drink, and have fun. You made a great choice.
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An XBR convert - but, one caution for Dish and Cable box users
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| Review Date: September 18, 2008 |
| Reviewer: RND, Dallas, TX |
This is an amazing set. For the past year I've been holding out for an XBR but recently the feature set in those sets isn't up to par with what it used to be. This TV has a nice balance of features (beyond just TV), a really nice picture and is very thin.
The DLNA is pretty cool. Right out of the box it found my laptop on the network and I could browse pictures and music it had - presumably because Vista and Windows Media have DLNA and 'serve' up content to whoever is on the network. Even more shocking was that it saw my 4-year old Sony Vaio that came with its own media server capabilities. The TV locked up (had to unplug it) when trying to view pictures, but music and some videos played just fine. I've not installed the software that Samsung supplies with the set - so it should get even better.
One word of CAUTION though. If you have a Dish receiver or Pioneer cable box, note that presently this set will likely interfere with your ability to make use of the remote controls for those units. Changing the IR channel on the Dish remote to 15 has been known to work. |
Awesome !
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| Review Date: November 6, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Raysworld01, Michigan |
| After 4 months of shopping for an HDTV, this set is the one! It has the best picture and features of any other tv i have seen. I went to Best Buy, Circuit City, and ABC Warehouse here in Michigan to check out every tv i could. At first, i was considering the Sony Z series, but a 46 inch was the largest size for that model. Then i was looking at the Panasonic Plasma's, but the picture just did'nt seem to be as crisp as the Samsung's . So after all the trips to the stores and all the price searching on the net, buying this set from Amazon was the answer. I bought a Belkin HDMI cable and a Sanus wall mount for it as well. Everything is perfect! The set looks very classy on my wall and gives the entire family room a modern look. The one thing about this purchase i was not totally happy with was the shipping. The "white glove" delivery is overrated as fellow reviewers have mentioned. Only 1 guy showed up from ( Pilot ) shipping, not 2, that i was expecting. When it was time to open the box, "i" had to provide "him" with a blade to open it. But after everything the tv was not damaged and arrived in one piece. Amazon uses several different shipping companies for each state, so i dont think a few bad shipping stories should affect this tv's overall rating. The sound quality is not the best too, but at 1.9 inches thick, you can't expect much more. So now im shopping for a surround sound system for it, which most people buy anyways for a complete HD experience no matter how good or bad the built in speakers are. The price from Amazon was the best. * UPDATED Nov.13th * So far so good. No problems. I just bought a Techcraft tv stand to hold all my com-pony's. It's a nice stand and it's priced right @ 350.00. ( TechCraft Veneto Series Credenza 60" LCD/Plasma TV Stand in Flat Black Finish ) Google it. Looks classy in black to match the sleek look of the tv. I just thought others might like the combo too. This tv gets 5 huge stars! *UPDATED Nov.24th* My set has a clouding issue. Im new when it comes to these flat panel tv's, but i've done some research and have viewed some photo's of lcd clouding. Well, my tv has that puffy cloud look on dark scenes and lights comming from the corners of the set, like flashlights. It seem's to be worse during night viewing and less noticeable during the day. I called Samsung today and set an appointment for this Friday. This is upsetting to me because i spent more for the 850 series in hope's of a set that is free from the problems of past models. Im going with a plasma tv. I've read to many review's about this clouding issue with lcd's. I will post again this weekend after the service call. Im going to set the backlight on #4 tonight to see if it makes any difference. * UPDATED Dec.3rd * No difference. The tech said the panel is bad and Amazon will refund my money. I like the picture so much on this tv that im going to give it another shot and get another one. I placed a new order instead of an exchange, this way i save 200.00 from what i just paid on Oct 17th. If this new tv has clouding im going to return it and order a Panasonic Plasma. I will post again soon. * UPDATED Jan.15th, 2009 * Well, i cant say the 3rd! tv is any better because it has the same clouding and flashlighting issues as my first two tv's. The picture is beautiful on this 850 series, but the flaws are unacceptable by my standards. Call me picky, but this tv purchase will be my last one for at least the next five years and i dont want black level issues from day one. I just ordered a Panasonic Plasma ( TH-58PZ800U ). It's heavier, consumes more power, but has great black levels and is compared to the Pioneer Kuro plasma's, but for half the price. In my opinion, if your looking for a new flat panel tv over 46 inches, go plasma. If you looking for one under 46 inches, go lcd. It seem's the larger lcd's have these issues. If anyone would like to see this clouding im talking about, go to Google images and type in ( lcd clouding ) or ( lcd flashlighting ). My hype for this tv has fizzeled out, for all bigger lcd's in general, but i would still give the tv 5 stars for the picture it produces but one star for the sloppy black level's. Some people might look past this problem, or not notice it at first like me, but i know there are many people like me who expect perfection when making a big ticket item purchase. So, for those who buy this 850 series be sure to look for these flaw's and make your own determination of the set. It seem's im not the only reviewer to have these problems. Maybe the 950 series is the new cure, but for 4-5k on these led backlit model's, i'll wait. Good luck to everyone and i hope my review's have helped. I will be posting a review on the Panny i just bought in a month or so. Im going to wait a bit longer this time around to review it before i praise it. |
Beautiful, Amazing, WOW!!!
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| Review Date: November 6, 2008 |
| Reviewer: R. Anderson, Marquette, MI USA |
This set is amazing. I had a 61" rear projection that had a good picture, but It wasn't anywhere near as good as this. The picture quality is incredible. When scenes involve people in a room for instance it's like looking in on them through a window every detail is bright, vivid, and crisp. And that is with stand definition. I record some old black & White shows and they have never looked so good. High definition is nothing short of spectacular. This set can be set to deliver a 60 hrtz or 120 hrtz refresh. The 60 is very good, but the 120 takes it to the next level. The higher refresh rate gives near Blue Ray quality to scenes where there is distant details in the background. These details become visible with the higher refresh rate. I'm seeing absolutely no artifacts in the picture at all.
The viewing angles are where I see a big difference from what I'm used to. The picture quality shows little or no change no matter how far to the side you get. I've laid on the floor directly below the set and the picture is great, and even when I stand right next to it and look down on it the picture is still great.
There are plenty of inputs, including 4 hdmi ports. All these different input ports are accessible using the remote. The remote has all the usual features, but it also includes a click wheel that I have found to work well. Clicking the center of the click wheel brings up a menu of the many features on this TV.I won;t bother listing them here, there's a great list on the site. Once the list comes up you can scroll and click through the many features to use them or turn them off.
The screen is only 2 inches thick, and the whole set doesn't weigh very much at all. You do see some glare on the screen mostly during the day. The screen can be pivoted thought an that helps a lot. The base is very stable. I have the set sitting on a sturdy but narrow table and because most of the weight of the set is in the base the TV sits nicely and isn't tippy at all.
I checked this set out at show room with many LCD's and plasma's on display and this set had what I say is the best picture by far. Even in a large room with a lot of light.
I recommend this TV without the slightest hesitation. |
LN52A850 - Very impressive TV
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| Review Date: October 10, 2008 |
| Reviewer: Tom Porada, Westborough, MA |
| I did a lot of on-line research and store browsing before ordering this TV. My work paid off and we are extremely satisfied. We are using FIOS as our 'cable' system and the clarity, vividness and sharpness through the LN52A850 seem almost too good to be true. This TV replaced a 6-7 year old Samsung 50" DLP that failed due to a bad circuit board. For normal TV viewing the TV is used with the internal speakers which provide very adequate sound although the old DLP sounded better - internal sound is not a negative for this TV. Shortly this TV will be coupled with a Samsung BD-2500 or 2550 Blu Ray player and I have high expectations of that combo. |
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